Last night an amazing peace came to me. Even as this morning provided a moment of stress and anxiety, a calmness underneath was still present.
An amazing thing happened last night that brought on the calm within the storm. A portion of who I am became exceptionally clear to me. After the realization I felt this sense of wow.
A friend sent me this message.
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" ~Douglas Adams
Borrowed a quote from you. Lol. I would compare it to a great book, beautiful painting, or an amazing sculpture. You can appreciate these things by just reading or looking but doesn't it add so much more when you learn about the one who wrote, painted or sculpted these beautiful pieces of art?"
I knew my answer instinctively. Upon this I recalled a conversation I had with another friend in January of last year. I still had the e-mail.
“I have a creator. The complexity of nature and the natural works we see every day. It is this that we live on and thrive from. Why must I tell a god that is seen as a single creator but spoken in a sense as multiple thank you? It is not that figment I need to thank. Rather the scientists learning about the life and the way it works. It is them that has opened the knowledge and understanding an possibilities for continual growth.”
For me this artist is the natural order of science and nature. Reading over my last blog regarding the frog I see the connection I have. This overwhelming tie. Constantly I am drawn over and over again to cornfields, to water, to nature.
I do not believe in a god.
Many reading this a sense of dread my overcome you. To me saying these seven words is a relief. I feel lighter, at peace.
A whole new world has opened up in my eyes. I have so much to learn about the way everything works. So much to devour and process from the molecular level to the complexity of the inner workings of the mind.
To me, there is no creator making these things happen. It just is. My desire and pull towards the philosophy of Buddhism is still here, if not stronger. The idea of retraining your mind. The ability to think differently, right mindfulness is a strong desire of mine.
Additionally I have been given another label, Secular Humanism.
Secular. “Pertaining to the world or things not spiritual or sacred.”
Humanism. “Any system of thought or action concerned with the interests or ideals of people … the intellectual and cultural movement … characterized by an emphasis on human interests rather than … religion.”
— Webster’s Dictionary
“Secular humanism is comprehensive, touching every aspect of life including issues of values, meaning, and identity. ..Secular humanism is philosophically naturalistic. It holds that nature (the world of everyday physical experience) is all there is, and that reliable knowledge is best obtained when we query nature using the scientific method. Naturalism asserts that supernatural entities like God do not exist, and warns us that knowledge gained without appeal to the natural world and without impartial review by multiple observers is unreliable...Secular humanism provides a cosmic outlook—a world-view in the broadest sense, grounding our lives in the context of our universe and relying on methods demonstrated by science. Secular humanists see themselves as undesigned, unintended beings who arose through evolution, possessing unique attributes of self-awareness and moral agency...Secular humanists hold that ethics is consequential, to be judged by results. This is in contrast to so-called command ethics, in which right and wrong are defined in advance and attributed to divine authority. “No god will save us,” declared Humanist Manifesto II (1973), “we must save ourselves.” Secular humanists seek to develop and improve their ethical principles by examining the results they yield in the lives of real men and women.”
I have always associated compassion and acceptance with religion. The realization that I had last night is I do not need nor believe in a god in order to have these qualities to be a part of who I am. This is a concept that I have struggled with this entire time.
Many people can do wonders in the world, all because they want to. I do not need a creator to tell me to be kind to others. It is in everyone's interest to do good for the sake of mankind.
I still have an admiration for those who have faith, a religion. My children will still learn about the different types of religion in the world. They will be given the tools and knowledge needed to make this choice on their own someday. No matter what that choice is, it is right for them and I will support them.
For me though, I have always been an Atheist. I am just now accepting and realizing it. The negativity people associate with this is unbelievable. Perhaps I can at least show my friends and family that it is not so. More importantly I have been able to begin to define who I am. I am Desiree.
That was amazing Des!! I'm very happy for you. And.....WELCOME to the club!!!
ReplyDeleteI am amazed and my head is spinning that you came to a conclusion within 36 hours. Yesterday you said you were going to attend a church for a few times first. What happened?
ReplyDeleteHonestly this is something I have struggled with since I was in Junior High. I just needed to finally make a decision. I have spent the past month rereading through journals, forums, the bible, asking myself questions upon questions. After 14 years of trying to believe in an existence of a "god" I am exhausted of trying to force myself to do so.
ReplyDeleteI have been to church many times. Spent a year at the Kingdom Hall alone. Christianity is not a faith I believe in, neither is any other organized religion. Part of me wanted to go to church to feel like I could belong in this society. The pressure to believe is immense. It was time to be honest with myself and realize the truth of my beliefs.
It was roughly four or five months ago I told my mom even that I did not believe there was a god, a heaven or a hell.
I had that light bulb moment hit hard last night and peace has swept over me. While I do not expect anyone to understand, I hope they just accept me for who I am as I accept those around me for them.
With this moment of clarity finally came the release of anger towards organized religion that has been building. Mainly due to the indoctrination of my four year old. My compassion is back, and once again I feel whole with my beliefs.
I think it's great that you feel at peace. It's a nice place to be.
ReplyDeleteI am thinking that you come across as all over the place and though you have been struggling for 14 years, I think you are basing your decisions on an emotional level instead of with logic and head knowledge.
It's obvious through all your blog posts and statuses on facebook that you hate religion. You come across as despising that your daughter has what you consider an indoctrinated religion. I fail to see any compassion from you towards your daughter where her beliefs are concerned. It may well be she was indoctrinated, or it could be that you are judging her (something you claim to be so against).
There is so much anger I am not sure you would even be able to recognize truth, whatever it is.
You attack, whether it be passive aggressively through status updates, or directly, others that believe different. Yet you fault others when they do what you are guilty of doing as well.
Phrases you commonly use such as, "While I do not expect anyone to understand, I hope they just accept me for who I am as I accept those around me for them", is but one of many examples of passive aggressiveness. You are angry that people don't accept you, but reality may be that more people accept you than you realize, but you push them away by your comments. That, and you don't even accept others that you fail to attempt to understand. How do I know that? Because when you are so angry and judgmental, there is no place for patience and understanding.
I think the reason why so many people watch what you post but yet don't interact with it or comment unless they agree, is because you are so defensive and attack something that typically was not even said. You may say you desire open and free communication, but that's about as true as saying you have compassion for others as well.
I think you come across as wanting attention more than anything else.
You'll make a lot more progress when you let go of the anger, and instead accept people for who they are. You'll probably learn a lot too. Right now the only thing you learn is justification for your attitudes towards those religions you despise. With understanding comes peace. With anger comes prison (a prison within yourself where you only see people through your jaded view).
First and foremost thank you! I am excited to see someone who normally doesn’t respond say exactly what is on their mind. I appreciate that more then you can imagine.
ReplyDeleteYou are correct in the fact I am by nature a more emotional person. Thankfully my rational and logical side is coming out more and more every day again. Through meditation, reading, and understanding I am going back to the person I have always been.
I completely understand your viewpoint and why you would feel such in regards to my posts on facebook showing hatred toward religion. The past couple of months I have had a huge anger towards organized religion. This anger is gone. I do post items that are pro-religion, and I do read the items posted on my wall with an open mind. Christine just recently posted a very interesting piece that brought about new things to learn about.
As far as my daughter, I have only her best interests at heart. When your four year old tells you you are going to burn in hell because of your piercings or that you are sick because you don’t know the truth about god and jesus, well yes you become angry and sick with religion. I admit that got the better of me.
I have never stopped my daughter from praying at meal times. Never ridiculed her about it. If she wishes to go to church I make sure she gets to go. The most important thing I want is for her to have all the knowledge and tools available to make that choice for herself some day.
I can understand how you may feel I have failed to attempt to understand others. Seeing how you and I are not close, I understand that view. To the person on the outside they do not know the full story. The background, and the daily struggles. I apologize you feel as such. The only thing I can do is to say I understand where your view is coming from. Which I truly do understand.
I will take your advice and keep it in mind. Every view is important to me and I hope that you will feel free to voice your opinion again. We can all learn from someone else. :)
I think if you believe in religion/god you are basing your decision on an emotional level instead of with logic and head knowledge. The bible is a book wrote to scare people into believing or else your doomed to the fiery depths of hell. If you do believe you're sent to heaven where everything is perfect. Who cares what happens here on earth as long as you repent and believe. Logic....Head Knowledge...I think not. Why can't she believe what she wants?? Without people questioning how fast her decision was. How fast was your decision on believing in god or were you taught that from birth? Atheists are misunderstood. We do not hate your believe in God. I think region is good for lots people. I wish Atheists could say what they want, just like Christians.
ReplyDeleteWell Jaded what you think lacks an obvious education in the topic. Head knowledge and logic can be used to show that God exists.
ReplyDeleteWhy atheists must attack Christians as ignorant or emotional, or uneducated is beyond my comprehension.
People can think and believe as they wish, but it's unnecessary to attack others for believing different. I have seen several mean spirited attacks from atheists, but the only people we ever call out are Christians.
Say what you want, but be respectful. I wasn't telling Desiree what to believe, just stating what I observed as obvious anger towards religion, which she acknowledged.
Also, read the Bible, as its obvious from your assessment that you do not understand the intent of the Bible, which is not "to scare people."
Did you miss the first thing I said? "I think" You put what you thought....so how am I in the wrong for putting what I thought?? Once again....in my best "lack of education on the topic"...hey wait...isn't that what you just said Atheists attack Christians about, being uneducated, but here you are doing it to me......anyways.......Atheists are misunderstood. We do not hate your believe in God. I think religion is good for lots people. I wish Atheists could say what they want, just like Christians or Muslims. and....the old testament is pretty scary. Who is attacking who here?
ReplyDeleteJamie, I am curious. Show me some of this logic that proves your god exists.
ReplyDeleteYour cult does use hell as a scare tactic. There are many people who believe just because they are afraid of hell. Part of the main theme of your cult is that if we do not believe in Jesus and ask him to save us because we are wicked people from birth, we will be tortured in hell forever. Can you explain to me how this is not a scare tactic?
"I think if you believe in religion/god you are basing your decision on an emotional level instead of with logic and head knowledge"
ReplyDeletePlacing I think before it does not change the insulting offensive nature of that statement.
I don't think you are uneducated for your lack of belief in God. I think you are uneducated if you say believing in God lacks head knowledge and logic. I am sorry you fail to see the attack in your original message to me.
But that's all you guys got, isn't it? No ability to logically defend your non faith, only the ability to attack others for having some. Yet then, attacking them once again because they are tired of the constant ridicule. Sorry that Christians are human, and have feelings.
Honestly. It's ridiculous. That's all. I'm out.
And Logical Mind, you don't want logic.
Cult:
-noun
a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
Yep, that's Christians. Responding to such nonsense is a waste of my time.
It was your original comment.....your exact words....
ReplyDelete"I THINK you are basing your decisions on an emotional level instead of with logic and head knowledge"......I just used your "insulting offensive nature of that statement" right back at you. I never called you uneducated. Logically thinking, who is really attacking who?
Sorry Des. this is your page, your thoughts.
ReplyDeleteMy original comment was directed to Desiree, someone I know. It was not a comment directed at those who do not believe in God.
ReplyDeleteI merely pointed out that her Facebook wall is full of vitriol and angry posts towards religion. It is of my opinion that when someone is angry, they cannot see past the anger to logic and understanding.
It was not meant or intended as an attack, but an honest assessment. I care for Desiree and believe she wants to grow, thus I said it. She can take it or leave it, I merely stated what I had observed.
The difference is you attacked someone you don't even know, and made general statements towards having faith in God and religion. Yes, I turned those back at you because I felt it unfair. I am sorry for not ignoring the insult.
Again I say, there is a way to respectfully disagree. And the above misses it entirely.
Telling me what can logically prove your god is a waste of time because I used one word you disagree with? I do consider Christianity false, recheck the definition you provided. There is an or in the first line not an and. Only one of those traits is needed to qualify, and it makes no mention as to who has to consider it false. The second part uses the word often and that means it is not true in all cases.
ReplyDeleteI admit it looks like this was totally directed at you Jamie but it wasn't meant to be read like you read it. This is what I should have wrote it. Sorry I didn't.
ReplyDeleteI think if people believe in religion/god they "are basing your decision on an emotional level instead of with logic and head knowledge." The bible is a book wrote (by many men) to scare people into believing or else your doomed to the fiery depths of hell. If people do believe, they're sent to heaven where everything is perfect. Who cares what happens here on earth as long as you repent and believe. Logic....Head Knowledge...I think not. Why can't she believe what she wants, without people questioning how fast her decision was made???????? How fast are peoples decision on believing in god or were they just taught that from birth? Atheists are misunderstood. We do not hate your believe in God. I think religion is good for lots people. I wish Atheists could say what they want, just like Christians.
Better?
Des took your comment alot better than I would have. How well do you know Des? You must be very close to her to say you fail to see any compassion for her daughters beliefs. I can't believe she took the high road on that one, I would not have.
If the situation was reversed and Christians where the minority and a Christion mothers child came home from school and told his/her momther or father that they are delusional because of there belifes and they are just wasting there lives praying to an invisable friend and that they would rot in the ground like everyone else. and this came out at dinner whial a prayer was being said. And this child was only 4 or 5. would you then have "compasion"? Or would there be punishment and an intervention with the pastor and other cherch members to try and bring that young one into the fold? Desiree showed compasion by saying its ok for you to belive in what ever you want but not for you to judge or condem others for there belifes. aka judge not yest ye be judged. sound familer? I do not see how that is a lack of campassion.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous: Children are innocent. They do not deserve adult labels. Yes I would show compassion to a child.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with misdirected anger at a child for the faults of adults. This is one thing I wholeheartedly disagree with.
Note: As I say "you" I am not directing this to any one person in particular.
ReplyDelete"I still have an admiration for those who have faith, a religion. My children will still learn about the different types of religion in the world. They will be given the tools and knowledge needed to make this choice on their own someday. No matter what that choice is, it is right for them and I will support them."
I have made several comments and have had several discussions where this is my underlying theme. If you have read all my blog posts and read my statuses for more then the past couple of months you would realize this.
That said it doesn't mean you believe it or have to believe this. The truth is that is what I mean.
One thing I have always tried my hardest at is to show compassion to others. Lately the anger was overwhelming. That said this anger is gone now. Does that mean I will not post things that may be anti-religion? The answer is no. I may still post thoughts, quotes, articles, blogs and the such that are anti-religion.
I will also continue to share items that are pro-religion. Why you ask? Because I have people in my life who love their faith. Through my admiration and respect for those people I will share things that I feel they would enjoy.
Here is something about me that most people do not know. I spent two years in one on one counseling of the Christian faith with a pastor. Discussing religion, the aspects and thoughts behind scripture. He is an amazing pastor, one that is open to questions and explains things very well.
Through my battle with my mental illness I have learned one major thing. When we feel we are cornered we go on the defensive. Humans are all guilty of such. My lashing out was part of this, just as I feel the strong opinions against my decision is a part of those people.
They may not admit it. I know I couldn't. I could be wrong. Either way it is okay.
Peace has came to me. I feel stronger and more grounded in the person I am. My proof of what I believe in is done with logical and rational thinking.
I am happy to try and answer any questions. For now however, I want to leave with a simple thought. Here is a part of why I believe what I believe. This is not being posted to say anyone is right or wrong. Just this is the beauty I see, this is part of my why, my logic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLxNc_Mtw-4
This is what I was talking about.....your comment......"I fail to see any compassion from you towards your daughter where her beliefs are concerned." This got the better of me.
ReplyDeleteAre you an attorney? You like to change things said to make you sound better. I'm done here.
Jaded~
ReplyDeleteI won't lie to you. That comment stung deeply. I sat back and tried to see how this person could view that. Jamie does not see me with my kids, does not see how we interact. She wasn't here last night as Sandra and I sang the AWANAS song. She isn't here when I let my daughter pray at meal times. She isn't her when my daughter and I talk about the big questions she comes up with. She only has seen my anger online towards organized religion.
Through my willingness to accept her viewpoint I am going beyond the hurt of that comment. I am trying to learn from it. It is not easy, but I am trying.
Thank you for coming to my defense. I can tell the pain you feel for me. You share in my suffering.
Thank you. Desiree
Christine,
ReplyDelete"I disagree with misdirected anger at a child for the faults of adults. This is one thing I wholeheartedly disagree with."
I agree with you.
Desiree
You are all a bunch of bitches. You borrow my brain for five seconds and just be like 'Dude, can't handle it. Unplug this bastard.'
ReplyDeleteLet me break it down for you. This is what I see:
Hi Pot. It's me, kettle. You're black.
What the fuck? I'm not black. You're black. You're the blackest of black.
Uh? How dare you attack me for being black. You're black too. Ooooo. burn.
That just flew out. That was a pretty good one.
I'm living inside the truth. And the truth doesn't change.
I'm gonna grab some popcorn for this encore. I'm a peaceful man with bad intentions.
See, I've been blessed with a new brain. Surprise! That's what winners do. I am special, and I will never be one of you. I dare you to keep up with me.
Clearly I have defeated this earthworm with my words.
Winning. Everyday.
P.S. Quit hiding dude. It's embarrassing. Next subject.
That was an amazing video...thank you for sharing it. I wish in my "real life" I could be this open about being an Atheist. It's not my time to come out about to everyone. I have some friends and family that would not except it. So they do not know. I lie about my beliefs to make things easier....sad but that's what a lot of Atheist do. The people that love me the most know who I am and what I believe. I do not envy what you will have to deal with letting everyone know. I feel your pain. I love you!!! Stand Strong.
ReplyDelete"That comment stung deeply"
ReplyDeleteSometimes the truth hurts.
"She wasn't here last night when.."
You obviously enjoy the attention. You enjoy spectators; especially negative ones. You can dish it out but sure can't take it when it's directed back at you. We have all been given the glorious opportunity to witness your viewpoint based on what you post. Next time remember this motto: "Say it, forget it. Write it. Regret it."
You can think you mean what you say. But actions speak louder than words. Your actions demonstrated through facebook and blog posts show a mother that despises the indoctrination of her child. The words are always directed at your daughter, and never towards the person who does the indoctrination.
Your life is a spectacle with your kids the victims. They didn't ask for this drama. For such instability. Do you ever stop to consider what this does to your children? You seem to only be interested in how it's affecting you. That really isn't appropriate for a mom. Correct us if we're wrong, but by what we see based on the window you give, it's not a pretty picture.
I don't have to align with Christian, Agnostic, Atheist, Buddhist, Universalist, etc. to see right from wrong.
@Jaded. If the previous comment by Jamie had no merit. It would have been ignored. The defensive nature of the responses show there must have been truth in it. There is no reason to get in a tizzy to defend a lie. Ignore it. Move on. To let it insult you means there is factual basis to it.
What the fuck?!?! Des you need to cut some ties I think. @Elizabeth...where do you get off? Are you fucking kidding me?????
ReplyDeleteJ. Do you always hide behind one letter words?
ReplyDeleteI'd like to be known as L then. At least people back up what they say with their real names. Instead of hiding behind J, Jaded, Jaded Views.
Own what you say. Otherwise why say it.
i would just like to say that desiree's reaction was not defensive or attacking if you go back up and read. the onlyones that are getting all defensive and attacing are certin christians on here because what they belive in has been questioned. so maybe you are right when you said
ReplyDelete" If the previous comment by Jamie had no merit. It would have been ignored. The defensive nature of the responses show there must have been truth in it. There is no reason to get in a tizzy to defend a lie. Ignore it. Move on. To let it insult you means there is factual basis to it"
you also know deep down how full of it you are so you atack anyone who doesnt agree with you with anger and feer in your heart. saying how dare you show me how wrong i am. thoughs who dont have the strength to be themselfs are always trying to tear down thoughs who do.
I don't understand what I did wrong except live a life that everyone is jealous of.
ReplyDeleteHey Anonymous 4:23. .. which I shall refer to as Nathan. :-) Love ya. But. . they are not called Christians. They are called trolls (In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response).
ReplyDeleteJamie or anyone else that would like to lash out......help me out here.....How should someone pray?????
ReplyDeleteOnly pray the Lord's prayer, for God already knows what you need.
Matthew 6:5-14
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
This, then, is how you should pray:
Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
OR
Pray for whatever you want
John 14:14
You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
BUT it doesn't matter anyway, because....
Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
and
John 9:31
We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.
So...
John 14:14 Jesus is speaking to His disciples.
ReplyDelete1 John 5:14 qualified what God will grant by saying, "Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, he hears us."
John 9:24 brings context with "it is well understood that God will not give miraculous aid to imposters and false prophets."
The only prayers that God will not hear are those which are offered in mockery, or when the man loves his sins and is unwilling to give them up. Such prayers God will not hear.
In John 9 the context of the passage is that Jesus was passing by a blind man. The disciples asked Jesus why the man was born blind. Jesus said it was so that the power of God could be demonstrated. After the man was healed, he was then taken before the Pharisees.
If you don't know, the Pharisees had the best of intentions to obey God, but were so devoted and extremist in their views of various parts of The Law and what they added to The Law, that they were blind to when Jesus was actually in their midst. They witnessed His miracles, heard His words, but instead of receving it, they did all they could to stop Him, eventually getting him killed because He claimed to be the Son of God.
In John 9 the Pharisees want to use the blind man for their own purposes, and ask him to blaspheme against Jesus by saying that He did not work on the Sabbath and was not the Son of God. The man does not cooperate with the Pharisees and instead debates them. This is where you get John 9:31 "We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will."
Psalm 6:18 "If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me.
Isaiah 1:14-15, Job 27:9, Jeremiah 11:11, Ezekial 8:18, Michael 3:4, Zechariah 7:13.
Isaiah 59:2 "But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear"
1 Peter 3:12 "for the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil"
Ultimately, God does not hear the prayer of the sinner in the same way he hears the prayers of the righteous. But God does hear the prayer of the sinner in the sense that he knows the thoughts of all men.
Jeremiah 17:10, 1 Corinthians 4:5, Hebrews 4:13
Sooooo...what? Context is important. Scripture is not contradictory when you understand context, who is speaking? to whom? why? where? when?
The context for the Lord's Prayer is the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus is discussing how we should pray.
Corinthians 14:34
ReplyDeletewomen should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
Too bad we are not in church.
righteous?
ReplyDeleteIf you don't believe something, just let it be. Picking verses at random is pointless and proves nothing.
ReplyDeleteDo you take any other books and pick out random phrases and then assume the author's intent of the book from those few phrases? Or you would read the book as a whole?
1 Corinthians (there is a 1 and a 2 for Corinthians) is a letter. In the first four chapters Paul is mainly writing about ministry, his visit, explanations, and Timothy. Then in chapters 5 and 6 he writes about things he heard were on in the church at Corinth.
Chapters 7-14 Paul was responding to questions and statements made by the church at Corinth.
Thus 1 Corinthians 7:1 "now concerning things whereof you wrote unto me"
1 Corinthians 8:1 Now concerning things offered unto idols
1 Corinthians 12:1 "now concerning spiritual gifts"
Paul is going through the statements made to him.
To summarize, the statements in 14:34-35 did not originate from Paul, he was only reiterating them to rebuke the church at Corinth. The Corinthians wrote the letter to Paul and he was telling them how ridiculous it was for them to say The Law forbids women from speaking in church. They were not commands from the Lord, but ignorance as to what they were teaching.
Also, from the Bible we know that the church is not a building, but refers to God's people as individuals.. It's an assembly of believers.
Also, there is neither male nor female in the church, for we are all one type (Galatians 3:28)
In 1 Corinthians 14:27-31, is where Paul actually sets the ground rules for speaking in "church":
In the Greek text, we know that in these verses the word man actually means people, humans, both genders.
i could continue, but alas, I know you have another verse waiting.
I remember the peace that I felt (after years of searching) the day I finally said to myself, "I am an atheist." Why is it so hard for some of you to just accept that Desiree has found peace. Oh wait, religion teaches that nonbelievers are lost, confused or angry at the one true deity.
ReplyDeleteAs far as hiding behind fake names. I look forward to the day I can finally come out to the world and not have to worry about the consequences of this action. Unfortunately, thanks to some of the religious people in my life, I am unable to do so at this time and it eats at me everyday.
I am at a loss as to why opinions cannot be shared without it taken as people not accepting Desiree's peace. I don't take her posts to mean she doesn't accept my faith. But anything posted contrary automatically means people don't accept her lack of faith? Why ask for people to share if you want it to be censored or don't really want to have people share unless they agree with your views?
ReplyDeleteI merely answered questions that were asked.
I think others did the same. There were attacks on both sides, but the only attacks acknowledged or pointed out are if they come from a Christian. I know that will never be admitted, but it is the truth and a double standard.
I told Desiree that allowing anonymous people to post causes people to say things they would never otherwise say. It's quite possible for an atheist to pose as Christian and be a butthole just for the sake of making Christians look bad, and vice versa. That's the nature of anonymity. There is no accountability, and no reason to type with integrity.
Neither a discussion about politics nor religion will ever amicably. People feel a passion for what they believe in. There is a reason that religious wars have been been fought for thousands of years. Is this really the place to try to hash it out? I think we've lost sight of the true purpose of this post.
ReplyDelete@Desiree
ReplyDeleteYou are a great mom and to hell with anyone that says different. You are so unique and special, in a good way ;-) Keep posting, I love reading what you have to say. Stay strong and never let anyone bring you down. I love you!!
@Jesse
ReplyDeleteThere is no hell.
Everybody has a black belt and carries a gun. I don't mess with people.
@Charlie
ReplyDeleteI'll keep that in mind. I too am a rock star from Mars. All us "different" people, like Des and I, are!
Of course you're gnarly. You're talking to me.
ReplyDelete(and it's bitchin' rock star to you)
I'm just giving them what I guess they want, I just don't know if they can handle it. Pussies.
As I read the words of Elizabeth I cannot help but wonder how well you know Desiree. I have known Desiree for 15 years.
ReplyDeleteBeing a Christian I have had many enjoyable conversations with Desiree. There is one pattern that I can contest to with her. She always goes back to nature. It is her instinct, her desire, her natural realm so to speak.
I remember once coming out of band and seeing her sitting on a bench behind the school under a tree. A book in her hand, a journal at her feet, and a camera by her side. There was this amazing thing that day that was different from other days. I thought she had a hair piece in, but no it was a butterfly, one on her head, one on her foot (she was always barefoot) and one on her journal. They were at one with her. Amazing.
She has always been an Atheist. I think it is time she accepted it. I trust in the Lord. I believe he has a plan for all of us. He has made her this way. He designed her to be the amazingly brilliant and compassionate person she is. It is a part of his plan for her to not believe. I will not question this plan.
Which brings me to another point. I know no one else that will drop everything to help another like her. Even people she doesn't really feel comfortable around. People whom has hurt her even.
I have spoken to her on the phone as some of these "questions" from her daughter has arisen. She is nothing but a loving and compassionate mother. Her anger was never directed towards her children.
As far as allowing anonymous to post, Desiree and I talked about that when she first started this post. She believes censoring comments is not an answer. Somethings may be hurtful, but she believes everyone has the right to say what they want. Everyone has a right to an opinion.
I called her the other day after reading these comments, she was still at peace, strong, caring, and strangely understanding. I have become a better Christian because of her.
God Bless.
A Sister In Christ
1. Why is it considered a debate when people share their views? Why is it not a discussion?
ReplyDeleteNo one is trying to tell Desiree she is wrong.
2. Why can’t people express their opinions or beliefs if they are different without it being seen as a discussion? People do not always share what they believe in an effort to say, “you are wrong, believe this.” People share their beliefs to say, “I accept what you believe. Here’s what I believe. Can you accept that too?”
Shall I direct you all to the top of Desiree’s page “A collection of mainly random thoughts and opinions. Feel free to express any rational, well thought out, and educated opinion.”
If that isn’t enough, on her Facebook February 23 she said “My friends, here is your chance to voice to me anything you want me to know”
Someone took the time to explain what they saw. Sometimes truth hurts. It’s not meant to be cruel, but to challenge and stretch people. It’s the only way to grow. Criticism stings, but generally there is a grain of truth in it. If we simply stop short by only being insulted, we miss the opportunity to challenge what we know.
3. Why are anonymous people discussing or arguing on whether or not Desiree is a good mom? How can any of us judge what is in her heart? Only she can know
4. Which begs the question, why can we only accept praise without the criticism?
There is a lack of congruency between what Desiree says and how she acts. To give her the benefit of the doubt, I would like to take her at her word that she acknowledges her anger and that it is gone, and thus accept that in the future it will not be the case.
I was honestly surprised by how well Desiree took some of the criticism here. Blew me away, in a good way.
I can only speak for myself, but previously a lot of the posts on her Facebook I have found offensive, insulting, vengeful, and attacking the intelligence level of people who have faith or believe in religion.
Desiree, you are so in your face about what you believe that it’s hard to believe you have compassion towards other views. Let alone the desire to hear them. Your facebook wall is like pouring gasoline in a fireplace and wondering why the whole house burns down.
I don’t think you realize how much it has hurt people, or has the potential to hurt people. I am not referring to people who merely want to castrate you and destroy your faith.. . I am referring to people who have a genuine love for you and desire to accept you, but are turned off by the hatred and insults you have spewed at people while at the same time preaching compassion.
@Jim
ReplyDelete"Desiree, you are so in your face about what you believe that it’s hard to believe you have compassion towards other views. Let alone the desire to hear them. Your facebook wall is like pouring gasoline in a fireplace and wondering why the whole house burns down.
I don’t think you realize how much it has hurt people, or has the potential to hurt people. I am not referring to people who merely want to castrate you and destroy your faith.. . I am referring to people who have a genuine love for you and desire to accept you, but are turned off by the hatred and insults you have spewed at people while at the same time preaching compassion."
If this is the Jim I think it is then I have this to say to you.
You and your wife have been overbearingly in "her face" about your views. I am a Christian and I would be very upset if my son said to me the things that I have heard Sandra tell her mother.
Her outpour online has been her escape goat, a way to release the anger she HAD. She gave you the ability to ask questions, and you had none for her. She has not stopped her children from going to church with you, nor has she stopped you from teaching your views to her children.
Personally I have advised her to put a stop to it as it is not healthy for her or the children.
Love her unconditionally Jim. For that is what the God I know says.
God Bless.
A Sister In Christ
There is irony in people getting attacked for other viewpoints here on your blog and even on facebook. You say seeing other viewpoints will help you analyze, but repeatedly you punish people for sharing. If you don’t punish, you allow others to punish by attacking the viewpoint.
ReplyDeleteIt’s your blog, you can control the content. Set up boundaries. Refuse to allow commenters to bash one another. Instead it’s a free for all, and then you wonder why people think you only seek attention, and not logical truth and fruitful discussion.
It has nothing to do with censorship, as iimplied by sister in Christ, people can be allowed to speak freely, but if their opinion is worth hearing, they should have known problem owning it as theirs.
People are up in arms about whether or not you show compassion to your daughter about what she believes, you say you are all about kindness and compassion, yet on your facebook you refer to your four year old as ignorant and intolerant. Is that compassion? I am merely asking.
Thats not the jim you think it is same as its not elizabeth it is some chicken shit that wants to stur trouble by using names off of her face book acount. and she never said sandy was ignorant ant intolerant she said that she didnt want her to become that way. typical for people to take stuff out of context to sute there case. if i take this and twist that i can make a person look anyway i want. But that is unnessesary sence you show the world your ignorance by what you post. Its not your duty or your right to tell someone they are wrong for what they belive. you are supposed to lead by example not by manipulation and pursacution. But i guess to lead by example you have to be a true christion and live what you preach. i have found thoughs to be few and far between. There is a documentary from a preacher that is called DEAR LORD SAVE US FROM YOUR FOLLOWERS i sugest you all watch it and learn how you are supposed to act. You say im a sinner. you say im bound for hell, so once your judgment condems you I shall see you there!
ReplyDeleteP.S. its better to be an open sinner then a false saint.
By the way this is her husband Nathan. and im not hiding from shit so come get some.
You can't process me with a normal brain.
ReplyDeleteI've been a veteran of the unspeakable.
@Nathan: I just want to hug him and rub his head.
Get a job, anyone?
@Sister Christ: It's a war. And it's on.
@Jim: My success rate is 100 percent. Do the math.
@Bro in Christ: You've been given magic. You've been given gold.
I'm not Thomas Jefferson. He was a pussy.
P.S. Nathan, if you can bring me a souvenir from that moment when your father locked you in the closet, then bring it to me.
you already have my souvenir you kiss her good morning and your welcome for all thoughs nice tricks i taught her. eveyone has to learn somewhere. :p
ReplyDeleteoh wait charlie i thought i was talking to your dad so i guess you are my souvenir. :) lol
ReplyDelete@Charlie
ReplyDeleteall great things to come to an end